Religion

Around and Around We Go Again…

It amazes me sometimes, how often I may get the same old arguments, or ideas of what I believe or do not believe.

Far too often, I try to explain that I do not believe in gods, yet I am met with messages like these;

From @POCOYOSMILE on Twitter, “@Tylzen oh srry .its calld bein an atheist .the disbelief in any deity .you dont BELIEVE there is a god”

There are two popular definitions of atheism out there;

  • The belief that there is no god
  • The lack of belief that there is a god

You might say there is no difference between them, but the difference is subtle, but yet important to remember.

I fall into the the latter category, of a lack of belief, I do not actively have to not to believe in a god, I just do not believe.

It might be hard for a believer to understand this, if they cannot recall or have ever not believed in a god, but there are many things that they do not believe in. Do they have to make an active effort every day or now and then, to not believe in those things?

One label such as atheism says little of who I am, and what I believe in, because I do believe in certain ideals, which have no supernatural origin or controlled by an entity.

@POCOYOSMILE made another mistake, in his message towards me, he capitalized the word BELIEVE, where he should have done that with “DON’T”, which hopefully would make him see, that I do not believe.

Whenever a believer ask me, if I believe in a god, my typical answer would be, “I do not know if there are any gods, but I do not believe there are any gods.”

If you want to use a quick label, you could call me an agnostic atheist, the problem with this label is that many do not know what it means exactly. The misrepresentation of atheists and agnostics alike, by believers, make it hard to use quick labels, so I prefer to explain in greater details.

Agnosticism and Atheism are NOT mutual exclusive, you can be both, agnosticism is not a magical middle ground, it is different part of your belief, that represents your knowledge, or perceived knowledge in the matter of the existences of gods.

To finally cement the argument against @POCOYOSMILE is if you called believing in gods, is a hobby, then not believing would be equal to not having a hobby.

So what @POCOYOSMILE says is that by not having a hobby, you have a hobby. Which is absurd at best.

Just like asymmetry is not a kind of symmetry, it is a lack of symmetry.

To end my post, I want to ask a question, why is it, that so many believers are so set at equating atheism as a belief?

I think personally that they want to have atheism on equal footing as their own belief, so they can dismiss it, by saying, that atheism is just another belief that some have chosen, and holds as much merit as their own belief.

Or

Can they not imagine that someone actually do not believe?

A PM I got on YouTube, that warmed my heart.

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The message below I received on YouTube from a Swedish friend, who I have had some discussions with, about his belief, and my world view.

/Tylzen

 

 

I have come to the conclusion that I am an agnostic atheist, and after having thought it through, and how I am going to feel.
That which have confused me and got me to doubt the most, were a lot of stuff.

 

1, that there are 38 000 different Christian denominations in the world, and all of them are claiming theirs are the right one, and fight with the others with who is the right one.
Paulus says that the gathering is the body of Christ, but the hand of Christ is not at war against the eye of Christ
Just look at the Catholics against the Protestants in Ireland!
The Catholics are accusing the Protestant of being heretics, and vice versa.
So many societies, but none that knows, and none who can prove that their interpretation is correct.
And, we can actually extend this thought to every Christian in the world.
If every Christian says that he/she talks with God, and God is always on the side of that person. (Regardless if it is a anti-gay, gun nut from Texas or a Greek Theologist) then logically we must draw either 3 conclusions:

 

1. God/Jesus is contradicting himself.

2. There are several versions of God/Jesus- (haha imagine 3 billion Gods who fight with each other about which version of god who is God. Where God no.1354 accuses God no.4 for leading people away from the Truth).

3. None talks with God.

2. The Bible! :D I am currently reading Leviticus and I am totally shocked by how cruel “God” is. I am an animal lover, so I feel sorry for all the animals sacrificed in the name of the Lord. Sacrificing animals for their own sake is totally immoral, but that’s what Christianity is based on, Jesus is the “lamb”. Moreover, the Bible ridiculously unscientific. The “birds” that may not be eaten include eg a bat! : D

 

4. My Bible has a lot of italic text written by Theologians. And really, some things they have written is totally sick. They threaten people to “think of eternity”, “not to be victims of the slavery of sin,” immoral nasty things about atheists and everything.

 

5. Just like my mother, who went to Sunday School in the Pentecostal church when she was little, I discovered the Christian hypocrisy. Many (not all) want to keep up a facade of being so good and pious, but in reality they are intolerant, narrow-minded people who want people who dissent to end up in hell. I mean really, many really want it, they think people “deserve” to be tormented for an eternity. . .
“God is a just God who must punish evil!” – “What you cannot accept is that God is not only a loving God. He is also a holy God.”
How can that be “holy” to torture people with eternal torment if they are not Christians?
I personally believe that evil exists. I think it’s a battle between the Enlightenment and Ignorance. If evil exists is the subjective.

 

6. Original Sin – How could an innocent little baby who has just come into the world, a little “angel” be victim of “sin?” from an ancestor called Adam that there really is 0 evidence that he even existed. That you inherit the sins are really sick.. .

 

7. Hell – Do I really need to say why?

 

8. History of Christianity and development. I have spent some time reading about early Christianity, Gnosticism and the Church’s development. When I read about the eradication of the Gnostics, Church Council of Nicaea and Constantinople, exclusion of a lot of books and letters, I was not exactly happy. Can also be mentioned the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, the eradication of Catharists, hell sermons in churches and so on.

 

9. Christianity flimsy grounds. I can honestly say that I do not know if Jesus existed. Maybe it’s just a story …
I personally believe that a person who was like Jesus, maybe he was called Yeshua, existed. I think he’s in that case was a wise teacher who possibly went to India in his childhood to learn a lot of things and then came back and for some reason was nailed to a cross. I think what he said really was that “God” really is “The kingdom of heaven within you” – So a sense of inner peace, humility and love.
Then during the course of centuries became his message distorted by religion. . .

 

10. Because my image of Jesus was more human being who became God, a spiritually enlightened wisdom teachers who spread love and wisdom; I expected in my naivety that Christians today would be as wise and loving. Instead I experienced a group of people who often behaved like children. Total blind groping in the dark and they become “high” during church services. But as soon as you disagree with them, they behave very childish. In addition, they prayed in tongues for me. . . XD

 

11. Mental Abuse. This is seriously sad, but very much with the Devil to do. Christians are so very afraid of the devil and demons and so on. Hell comes in here too, and God, since you will be afraid and love the Lord! ;)
I remember when I was so angry with Matthias in the spring and went to my Christian landlords and said I did not want to believe in God anymore because of him. I remember how very sorry they were and they sort of looked at me as if I would go to hell.
For about a week ago I told the landlords that I wanted to go to Yoga and then the woman told  me that a Christian should beware of such as it is Oriental, and it seems innocent but it “really” is not . . .

(Fortunately, there are exceptions. I’m friends with a priest in the Swedish Church who love yoga.)

In all cases, the yoga thing was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Here I had gone a long time, for about six months, and doubted very much, and now I knew: “Nah, now enough is enough.” Now I want to leave Christianity behind me. I want to learn to think logically and rationally, I want to learn more about science and so on. I also have the freedom to study other religions such as Buddhism and Taoism, which I think is very interesting.

 

Christian (my name [Tylzen]) I feel that I owe you a bit of an apology. In my delusion, I could not really accept your sound arguments , and we fought a lot. But now I understand that you just did my best, and you were right! :) Feels really like a lot of freedom, and something very nice to be able to think logically and not base my worldview, belief and so on subjective feelings. Feels really nice to have no fear of any “God” and not to keep the commute between faith and doubt all the time, which is really hard!
It makes me almost happy to think ‘there’s probably no God’.
So thank you Christian, for being and that you are an intelligent and enlightened man! :)

/ Sorry for the incredibly long message, but was really nice to express it. From [Name removed].

Religious charities rejects donations.

From time to time I hear from theists that atheists tends to donate less than theists. Studies supports this, but I think there may be an underlying issue other than their lack of belief in gods.

It is not unheard of that religious charities, such as the Salvation Army rejects donations if they think they go against their religious belief. With one particular case with the Salvation Army, they rejected toys of Harry Potter and Twillight, because it promoted the occult and witchcraft.

They also reject money donations from groups that they didn’t like or if the money was attained in such a manner that they did not like. Such as money won in legal gambling or lottery. Also money from musicians or likewise that does not share their religious belief.

I have focused a lot on the Salvation Army, but I would speculate that a non-believer would feel uneasy to donate money to charities that are religious, which the majority of charities are.

So what we need is more focus on secular, and open charities, to make sure we know what the money is spent on.

Death & reversed Pascal

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